Shotfrog ([info]shotfrog) wrote,
@ 2004-06-23 13:28:00
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An opaque window into the mind
Those who know me well might agree that I have trouble forming firm opinions on touchy matters like politics and morals. This is because I try to be circumspect to a fault: by forcing myself to consider the validity of every side of an issue, I find myself unable to discount fully any dissenting arguments. Consider the hand-wringing I've been engaged in since well before the Iraq war began, and you'll understand how I can argue for and against a point of view with the same level of conviction, sometimes in the same sentence.

When I'm trying to figure out where I stand on something, I find distinct parts of my brain engaging in McLaughlin Group-style debate. These are cogent, coherent conversations I'm having mentally. Here's one such discussion I just had, which began while I was at the urinal (no, that's not relevant). We'll call the two speakers Barry and LeVon, only because you really can't have too many shoutouts to The State.

Barry: "Man, I'm looking forward to sitting down and spending some quality time with Metroid Prime."

LeVon: "Just what you need - another ten hours glued to the TV."

Barry: "I consider video games an active hobby. A gamer is engaged while playing - not only is he working mentally, he's also responding and reacting physically thanks to the controller interaction."

LeVon: "Don't you think such an argument lends credence to those who claim violent video games can warp the mind? If you're fully engaged in, say, the slaughter of the entire ecosystem of Tallon IV, isn't that logically going to extend to your actions in real life?"

Barry: "Come on, now. It's just a game. That's like saying a baseball player will be conditioned to want to hit every round object he sees with a bat or similar blunt instrument."

LeVon: "That analogy is fallacious. The medium isn't the point. Your analogy would be accurate if I had suggested that playing too many games led you to believe that you could control the world around you with a gamepad. Baseball players and other athletes deal with life through hard work. A ballplayer learns that in order to get ahead in life, he needs to practice hitting; a gamer learns that he must annihilate his obstacles."

Barry: "But we both learn the value of winning, as it is the modus operandi for both of us. And it's not like I don't work hard to beat a game."

LeVon: "Certainly. But the ballplayer has worked hard at something to bring him success in life. Money, happiness, and hot chicks out the ass. You, by contrast, sit in your home and avoid everything that could bring you what you actually want. Even though you both win, only one of you is actually a winner."

Barry: "Fuck."



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[info]denonymous
2004-06-23 11:34 am UTC (link)
What about the fact that completing Metroid Prime is a tangible goal for the gamer, with the attaining of such being a show of dedication and (relative) hard work?

And where does Curt Schilling stand in all of this?

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[info]shotfrog
2004-06-23 11:41 am UTC (link)
I guess the question is how valuable a goal beating Metroid is. I can't really see how it's worth much at all.

Curt Schilling is too busy playing Everquest to answer.

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[info]deadbabydisco
2004-06-23 02:14 pm UTC (link)
You have become better at Pitching (133)!

(That's an Everquest reference.)

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[info]fallen_scholar
2004-06-23 02:26 pm UTC (link)
While it's tempting to pull out Slatz Bukowski to show LeVon a thing or two, I'm too tired for a good philosophical dialouge.

The glaring flaw is "the medium isn't the point." It is, or at least is to the extent that it is a medium. Neither a baseball player nor Metroid player is participating in the real world. I don't like putting it that way because both clearly are doing things in the real world, but ultimately, both the skills and the experience for either player exists only in - and only has real meaning in - gamespace, or the medium of the game.

To wit, a baseball player being a better hitter only makes him a better hitter. It does not mean a successful life. The equasion exists because the baseball player can more readily parley his successes into financial gain, which is not so true for the gamer. Then again, when the baseball player moves to France, or when Space Command comes looking for members for it's Missle Defense Team, the tables will be turned.

The core point shouldn't be that baseball success equals real success and video game success equals fake success, but that either can teach the sorts of skills or dedicaiton, focus and passion that are worthwhile elsewhere. The money produced amounts to cultural odditiy.

Admittedly, the noition I keep returning to is one of the kid in the projects trying to use basketball as the way out, deffering other possiblities like school or work. Truth be told neither baseball nor video games are productive activities in their own right. Sure both provide skills, experiences and ideas that are good and noble, but each tend to be rather tangental and serve to , as you write, "avoid everything that could bring you what you acutally want."

Then again, I know writers who stick to their work by muttering "just one more level, just one more level," summoning some Everquest spirit to get them to complete their work.

So the real question becomes are you Metroiding to avoid something or are you doing it to experience something?

The problem with the first part of the argument is far more subtile let much less interesting. Regardless of the level of narrative immersion, the skills aren't the same.

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Hey.
(Anonymous)
2004-06-23 05:53 pm UTC (link)
Well, what would you be doing if you weren't playing Metroid? Furthering your chances of success in the world? If not, well, there's no opportunity cost. No loss.

Ah, economics.

--jsg

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Honestly.
[info]achellios
2004-06-24 10:30 am UTC (link)
I left my days of justifying "wasted" gametime behind with high school and King's Quest on the family PC. As soon as college hit, digital entertainment of pretty much every became as routine in my day as lunch.

The obvious difference is that I no longer had Motivated Outside Management (we'll call her M.O.M., for convenience), pointing out the "finer" ways I could be spending my time. A bad thing? Not necessarily--as I've noted before, and as LD has demonstrated repeatedly, video games are as much a cultural nesting ground as hip-hop. This wasn't always true for our predecessors, hence the concern over our apparent fixation with sloth and joysticks.

Let's keep it clean, gentlemen.

To summarize--beautiful introversial exchange, but I hope no harm came to the mind of Mitch in the making of this dialogue.

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(sic)
[info]achellios
2004-06-24 10:34 am UTC (link)
Throw a "sort" in there wherever it seems appropriate.

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